The Murder of Tori Stafford

The Murder of Tori Stafford

00:00 :

Welcome to season 3 of Love and Murder. In today’s episode, we have a very special guest for you. But on a darker note, we’re telling a case of a little girl gone missing. The police think the answer is right under their nose. But are they as sure as they think they are? It’s the case of Victoria Tori Stafford right now on Love and Murder.

Welcome everyone. Welcome to the first episode of season three of Love and Murder, the weekly True Crime podcast. I know you all missed hearing that because we’ve been gone for like two. Three weeks anyway, the weekly True Crime Podcast discussing relationships gone terribly wrong, where our motto is you’re either someone’s last love or their first murder. I am your host, Ky. And I have a very special guest here for you today, only for this episode and for a reason. Let us welcome the illustrious, the gorgeous, the beautiful Chare.

01:22 :

Hello good people. I am glad that applause, they really missed you. So Char is here as a guest host for our very first episode of season three. Now, if you want to continue hearing the dynamic duo of Kai and Char, you got to subscribe to our Patreon. Now before you ask what’s our Patreon? First of all, how do you not know what our Patreon is? But anyways, we will discuss that later on in just a little bit of what sharing Kai are doing. But Rick will be back for our regularly scheduled program next episode next week, and let’s just get into what love and murder is real quick for the newbies out there so if you’re new here, our show discusses true crime cases told in the form of a story with mystery and suspense. Now sometimes we may do a little bit of humor, but it is never at the expense of the victim. Be sure to subscribe to love and murder on whatever platform you’re on, as well as give us a 5 star review. Y’all already know we’ve been asking for this for like 2 years. Go to whatever platform five stars. If you’re new here, listen of course 1st and then rate US five stars and also welcome you’re much appreciated absolutely. In today’s episode we’re talking about. Horrible, terrible. No good, very bad, terrible case that I’m going to tell you to sit down, grab your butts, grab your apple juice, and be prepared for this one. It’s going to have a lot of y’all’s jaws on the floor. I’m telling you, it’s a terrible case. But first. As I was talking about our Patreon. Kyle and Shar, because I’m speaking about us in the third person for some odd reason kind share are going to be doing a new segment over there where we discuss court cases and we just kind of react on it. So you’ll actually see video, it’ll be Kyle Anshar and it is only for our Patreon subscribers. So if you want to, if you want to hear this head on over to our Patreon, www.patreon.com/loveandmurder and become an exclusive LaM member we over at Patreon. To get serial killer corner, you get crazy crime, you get to know more about the host. And in season three we have so much more. Coming up. I’m going to be a lot of people have been asking me about like some of the recipes because they know I cook and everything like that. Sounds like going to be.

03:58 :

Doing, yeah, I’m going to be doing some cooking on there. Just, you know, a lot of fun things. So go on over to our Patreon, WWW dot patreon dot com forward slash love and murder and become a subscriber of the most popular tier is 5. Dollars and above, but we do have tiers starting at only 1$ if you want to catch cayenne char, the dynamic duo once again catch us on our Patreon. Oh, and also in this episode, we won’t ask Char what she’s been doing, but if you find if you want to find out where Shari’s been, head on over to our Patreon. She tells you all about it over there. That was our last bonus, mini bonus, last mini bonus episode that we talked about.

04:38 :

Yeah, spill all the juicy details while some of them, anyway.

04:43 :

So now we’re going to get onto this show and shar, the lovely Shar is joining us tonight. Like I said, this show is about. Tori Stafford, well, Victoria Stafford, they call her Tori Stafford. So we’re going to start rolling on back as we normally do and start at the very beginning. Terry Lynn Mcclintic was born in 1990 in Woodstock and this whole thing takes place in Canada. So this is not Woodstock, georgia.

05:15 :

Ok yeah no.

05:17 :

So she was born to questionmark because her mother ‘s name was never given. Her father’s name was never given. But her mom was a stripper. And as soon as she was born, her mother handed her over to her best friend, whose name was Carol Mcclintick, and her best friend, who was a fellow stripper, raised Terry Lynn. I guess she named her and everything because her name is Terry Lynn Mcclintic, which is named after the best friend. So her mom didn’t even want her from birth. Handed her over to her best friend was like, you raised her and that was it. So when Terry Lynn was actually nine months old, Carol officially adopted her. And you know, they just lived together as mother and child and over the next few years strange.

06:02 :

You think that’s strange? I mean, not necessarily, you don’t.

06:05 :

Know OK, so because the mother, the original, the birth mother. I thought at first maybe she felt like look, in my lifestyle it’s not good for a child. And so I’m going to ask my friend to adopt her. But her friend it does the same thing. So how is it that your friend can take care of the child and you can, that’s why that’s really she mean product? You’re friend wanted a child and she just didn’t want a child. She probably just wanted to continue on with her life. So that’s what happened. So yeah, I mean I guess in some sense it’s strange, but for them it worked out. I guess. I don’t know now over the next few years, the two lived all over Ontario, canada not Canada. Sorry, Canada, we didn’t mean that. We didn’t mean it.

06:55 :

They lived all over Ontario and all and actually moved every couple of years, kind of like they were in the military without being in the military. They lived in Guelf and I think that’s how it’s spelled is GUELPH So I think goof. Maybe Gulf, that sounds German. So damn German. North Bay Parry Sound and Muskoka so she went to school. She went to so many different schools and at school she says that she was bullied because people would make fun of her because she was a stripper’s daughter. So that was the whole thing that they made fun of her for. Now she was described, and I guess it stemmed because of the cruelty of children and. The abandonment of her mom and everything like that. But she was described as cruel and violent for almost her entire life. When she was just a child, she put a dog in a microwave and then later the dog had to be put down. But then she lied about it and said the dog was hurt at another place. But it all came out and it was just she put a dog in a microwave. Who does that?

08:07 :

Oh wow, I.

08:08 :

Can’t even imagine.

08:10 :

I can’t. No so when she was about four or five, it was actually revealed that she was molested. But then her adopted mother, Carol said that as soon as she found out about it, she stopped it. Which some parents don’t do. So I guess that’s a good thing that she completely put a stop to it. But still, it’s really bad that four or five.

08:34 :

That it happened,

08:36 :

Yeah i feel that’s terrible, which with all of this, that kind of. Explains why she was so terrible, meaning why she.

08:45 :

Was so she was really true.

08:46 :

It was lashing out.

08:48 :

Yeah, exactly.

08:49 :

When she was about seven and living in Gulf. Now, if that’s not how you say it, Canada, I am sorry.

08:55 :

Please let please chime in the comments guys. Let us know.

08:59 :

Because we.

08:59 :

Can Butcher a city. Sometimes it’s not intentional.

09:03 :

Are we just ignoring the gulf or is it gulf? I really want to know. I seriously want to know. Guelph So anyways, when she was about seven at this time they were living in Gulf children’s age, which is CPS for us. Americans started looking at her, started really like observing what was going on with her and I guess she was up, they were observing her because of how she was acting in school and stuff. Now check this out at only eight years old. She started doing drugs at eight years old.

09:42 :

Yes, i can’t even imagine. She has parents. Why have a parent if you really have to raise yourself, you know? So this is, it’s like all the examples you’ve given us of dysfunction so far. I’m still asking myself, where was the adoptive parent? Like even the dog in the microwave? How do you not know that your child is putting the dog in the microwave? Like how do you just not know these things are happening? So how do you not know that your 8 year old well even has access to drugs? Of you’re doing drugs and they have access. That’s really sad,

10:15 :

But you’re assuming that the parent is not around. She could.

10:19 :

Just really be having that, yes.

10:22 :

Yeah, but she’s a single mother, and this daughter started out her life with her mom not wanting her, so she already feels abandoned. And then at school the children are making fun of her. And that doesn’t necessarily mean that her moms nowhere to be found, but you cannot watch your child twenty four seven.

10:39 :

So there’s that.

10:40 :

Anyways at 8. She started doing weed and then slowly but surely, she moved up to harder drugs and then for the next 10 years. She hasn’t even started her life yet. 10 years. She’s only 18.

10:56 :

18 yeah, for the.

10:57 :

Next exactly. For the next 10 years, she would be a heavy drug addict. wow so she also, not all of this is going on, but then she also lived in two foster homes, so I guess CPS or what do they call it in Canada, Children’s Aid took her away from Carol, so she lived in about 2 foster homes and maybe more. And she lived in detention centers because from the age of 12 to 17, she’d actually been in and out of juvie because of fighting and just she ended up being. Convicted of assault at least six times. Again, this goes back to the whole anger she was just really angry and feeling that with drugs wasn’t really helping. Then even though she was in juvie, basically she was. She just kept getting in trouble. She would fight people in juvie. She wrote these letters and diary entries, and in them she was threatening like the people who did her wrong. If you did her wrong if you, I don’t know, tripped on her shoe lace and she.

12:08 :

Just entered that her book and her secret diary like A who I’m going to kill next.

12:14 :

So it’s funny that you said kill. She would actually. Use the word slaughter, she would say. She would slaughter someone and at one point in time she would talk about ripping out each of their bones. And then she would sign these by saying murderous with a Z, so murderous bitches with a Z. And that’s just how she called herself and a friend of hers. So they were the murderous bitches, I guess.

12:42 :

I’m sorry to laugh, but it’s like, it’s just, it’s almost like you just can’t really believe it. Like people really live this way and these are.

12:51 :

Children, this ain’t nothing. You is going to get worse. In 2006 when she was 16, Terry Lynn ended up getting into a fight with Carol and she punched her adopted mother in the eye and caused her to go blind in that eye. That’s how.

13:11 :

Hard chart punch. That’s pretty hard dude and then in 2008 they moved in. Her and Carol. They moved into a rundown 2 bedroom house in Woodstock. And in true addict fashion, the first people Terry Lynn got to know where the drug dealers of that town. She didn’t know anybody else. She didn’t have any friends, but she found out where.

13:34 :

The she found them.

13:36 :

Exactly, and became really close with them. Now moving on to the next person in this story. Michael Rafferty was born in 1980 also in Woodstock, Canada, to well, they only gave his mom’s name, which was Deborah Murphy. They really didn’t talk about his father, but they just said he was born to Deborah Murphy. And as a child, Michael spent some years with an aunt and uncle in Drayton, which was a village about 31 miles or 50 kilometers northwest. Of goods. Everybody described him as being like a really good looking handsome guy. They said, quote, boyish good looks. I don’t even know what that means boyish always wondering about that. Does that mean like youthful, young?

14:25 :

Maybe and that they also said that he was very charming. Now keep this in mind that he was very charming and good looking, because you’re going to need this information throughout the story. Ok? In 1995 when he was a teenager, he moved and went to. Alexander Mackenzie High School in Richmond hill this is a place near Richmond Hill that’s like near Toronto. So you know, if you don’t know where Richmond hill is, I know most people know where Toronto. And so he lived there from September 95 to March of 96 So basically between the time he was 15 to like 16 and while he was there in his teenage years, 15 to 16, he partied hard. He partied. Like it was 1999 even though it was 1996 And his friends would say that he was often seen at bars and with women and just stuff that like a 1516 year old shouldn’t be doing, but.

15:26 :

It was going to say sounds like an old man, like he’s just out there in the streets.

15:32 :

And then The thing is, even though he didn’t even have a job, he always was dressed in the latest fashion, the most expensive clothes and all of this stuff. So how do you think he got these clothes like this? Was it all these women from the bar and stuff like that?

15:51 :

What do you think? I mean it. Probably the five finger discount. Why not? He’s doing all breaking all these other rules and, you know, like stealing.

16:00 :

I mean you. I mean, I understand what the five finger discount is, but you think it wasn’t the women that he charmed into giving the clothes like we’re giving him money and who?

16:11 :

Is that like a thing for a guy to charm a women so that he can get close? Well, I guess maybe.

16:17 :

So I was about to say, where have you been? Anyway, at this time he was also addicted to Oxycontin. So he’s on drugs as well, partying hard, you know, womanizing and I don’t know, asking women for money or something, but at the same time on drugs now sometime between 2002 and 2003 He moved to Gulf. I really hope I’m saying this right. Every time I say it, I’m like I’m saying.

16:45 :

This right, we just cannot continue to not know. We need to know.

16:51 :

So he moved to Gulf between 2002 and 2003 So he was like 2223 at the time. And when he moved to Gulf, he worked for a meatpacking plant over there. Around that time he met a woman named Jennifer Walstra, who was somebody who was trying to be a veterinarian, and they dated and lived together until September 2005 So that was about two years. And she, this woman liked to keep like she never missed a day of writing in her diary. And what she talked about was how their relationship was. She talked about, you know, the good, the bad and everything like that and that, you know, he basically never had money and he was always between jobs and stuff like this. But All in all, there was nothing like prolific about the relationship. It’s not like he cut up a bar, her bird, her pet bird, and was like, you know? Here’s Polly for dinner. Like he didn’t do anything that you would be like.

17:51 :

I really just yeah,

17:53 :

Just drastic it was just a regular relationship. Yeah with its ups and downs or whatever. Like every relationship. So on the weekend of February fourteenth, one of the things that Jennifer talked about was that Michael had surprised her with a trip to Toronto where they stayed at the Sheraton, went to a play and partied and just had fun. So she’s saying, you know, this is the best time of her life. He surprised her with this. Awesome gift whatever remember I said he was charming? however. All this time, Michael was cheating on her. So this came out from a friend who both knew him and Jennifer and his friends were like. Michael basically cheated on everyone. Quote he was always whining to me about his girlfriend and how she was going to leave him, because he always effed up. He was always cheating on her. She’d go home and he’d stay at the bar the next day. He’d wonder why she was mad at him. Endquote really. Why she’s mad at him really OK, but.

19:05 :

So he just keeps floozies around on the side. It’s to him, it’s.

19:08 :

Just like going to his friends. According to his friends, he was always cheating on her, and I guess she knew, but she stuck around, so I don’t know. Maybe that’s why they only lasted, what, like two years or something, yeah, over four months after they broke up. You ready for this? I’m holding my breath.

19:33 :

Four months after they broke up. He used I don’t know if you all remember Limewire back in the day. Now I know.

19:41 :

The name.

19:43 :

I know the newer generation won’t know this. Basically when you wanted to get something for free, like a movie for free or music for free, you would have to.

19:50 :

Like do you?

19:51 :

Remember, it was like literally you were stealing it and you had to download it. People would have the like the movie and they would burn it. I don’t even know if children nowadays know what burning is. They would.

20:01 :

Burn it.

20:03 :

And then they would upload it to their computer and then.

20:06 :

They would share it with everyone too.

20:08 :

It was really a an illegal practice and a lot of people got charged, they went to jail or they had to pay fines. And anyways, I know we don’t have that now because everything streaming everywhere, but back in the day we didn’t have that. So four months after he broke up with Jennifer, he used Limewire to download child pornography girl. Then in March 2008 him and his mom, well, he moved to Woodstock to live with his mom and her then boyfriend David Riddle and their four cats. I like how they included four cats and cats.

20:46 :

And you know.

20:47 :

There are four cats, yeah. Then in April 2008 he met a woman. Named Charity Spit spitzig. Yeah, that’s her last name, Spitzig. Charity spitzig. She was a mother of four and she was 22 years old. By this time he was using the dated app called plenty of fish. Is that still around?

21:10 :

Anyway, it’s definitely.

21:12 :

So yeah, plenty of fish. And that’s how he met charity said that they saw each other at least three times a week, and Michael said he was back in school, he was taking dance courses and he was working in the home renovation business she thought to turn his warning signs.

21:32 :

Of relationship. And she was ready to take it to the next step because he seemed like such a good guy. He was like, again, the word coming up, he was very charming. So, you know, she thought, this is the one. I found the one. So she wanted to get married. Now this is where it takes a weird turn. They were having money problems, as sometimes couples do, like that’s normal quote. We discuss ways for finances to be made easier. Me getting into the escort business, which I did, and any monies from there went directly to him.

22:11 :

What it sounds.

22:12 :

Like you exactly.

22:16 :

Word for that exactly yeah. So from December 2008 to May 2009 she transferred sixteen thousand eight hundred thirty five dollars. From her bank account to his bank account. She said she’d also given him cash, but she didn’t know the total of how much cash she gave him because, you know, you got to pay your pimp. I mean, he going to smack you on the on the backside with the with the what is?

22:46 :

It the better have my money.

22:48 :

Be better have my money. But that’s supposed to be his girlfriend.

22:54 :

16.000 thousand and it was in a very short time, right?

22:57 :

From December 2008 to may, so December, yeah, January, February, March, April, May, that was only five months.

23:05 :

Sixteen thousand dollars yeah, she was definitely business was really good, you know?

23:12 :

I’m in the wrong profession right.

23:15 :

Like, I think we should quit our day jobs right about now.

23:19 :

In February 2009 Michael met, remember. He thinks she thinks he’s exclusive to her to the point that she decided that, hey, we’re in financial difficulties, I’m going to go be an escort and give you all my money that I made now in 2009 OK, remember. From December 2008 to May 2009 she’s given him all her money. In February 2009 he meets a woman named Terry Lynn Mcclintock, who we were talking about before.

23:49 :

We sure.

23:50 :

Were so. But he met her at a New Orleans pizza outlet. And by this time, remember I told you Terry was already taking drugs and everything like this? She was taking antidepressants, popping oxycodone.

24:06 :

So basically.

24:08 :

They were both on oxycodone, so they had something in common. Then she was doing ecstasy. She was also.

24:16 :

Injected morphine.

24:18 :

And smoking weed. I don’t understand how anybody injects anything into them unless it’s like unless you have diabetes and you have.

24:28 :

Yeah, and I understand you have to.

24:31 :

But you make a choice to inject stuff in you. Again, I guess I have to talk about people who are doing in vitro, because that’s a choice. Ok, I’m going to just shut up now.

24:43 :

Yeah, you’re going down a long needle road. Here, OK syringes and all. That’s a lot.

24:49 :

So anyway, so even though he was with charity and literally pimping her out, he is now with Terry Lynn as well. They started going out and she believed that they were exclusive and so did the three other women. He was seen.

25:03 :

At the time wow.

25:06 :

And he was also seeing another woman named Jessica Malachi. Malachi who? Somehow, even though he was with all these people, he was living with her most of the time. So I wondered where everybody else thought he was when he was with Jesse.

25:22 :

Yeah, I was just going to say I wonder what yeah, I wonder what his little spiel was. No, he. Because it sounds like a job, a full time job to keep everyone somewhat happy and.

25:34 :

I guess that’s why he wasn’t working, because that was his full time.

25:36 :

That’s a job. That was it exactly and I mean he’s netting from this full time job he’s netting about. Two sixteen seventeen thousand so.

25:45 :

That’s not bad. Yeah, you know, considering you don’t have to do anything at all except.

25:51 :

Women, yeah. So he had like, what, four women at this time? Easy by the spring of 2009 Michael had met and went out with more than a dozen women wow. And charity is still working for him wow and now you know how people are like, well, I have a preference. I like tall women. I’m not going to date anybody that’s like 10 years younger than me or more than 10 years older than me. I like black, white, you know, I like big boobs or big butt or big thighs.

26:27 :

Yeah, he told she’s only preference.

26:31 :

His only preference were that they were women. He didn’t care to age, he didn’t care a height. He didn’t care if you had a job, he didn’t care if you had children, nothing. All he cared about was that you were on plenty of fish and that you were a woman, and that’s literally.

26:47 :

It’s crazy.

26:48 :

Oh my God, so what he started on plenty of fish on let’s see what date in 2008 he started on plenty of fish and between 2:00.

27:00 :

On that website Kai, because of people like him, a lot of my friends.

27:05 :

Are I’ve never been on any dated which.

27:07 :

It’s a really popular one and a lot of my friends.

27:10 :

Are between 2008 and 2009 one year he’d already been out with dozens.

27:18 :

Of women.

27:20 :

That isn’t.

27:21 :

Finds the time. There’s only so many hours in the day.

27:23 :

I mean, he don’t have a job, so sweetie you.

27:28 :

Have to eat i mean, it’s like he was literally just. I mean really just breathe. Ok, next it sounds like an assembly line.

27:35 :

Yeah, that was his job. Like I said, the assembly line of women. So in that same year, 2009 he reconnected with an old friend named Alexis Lane, who was 30 at this time. They first met when they were in sixth grade in drayton, and he did like her. He had a crush on her way back in sixth. Grade so he reconnected with her in 2009 He found her on Facebook and everything like that. And she agreed to go out with him and everything like that. I mean, you know, last time she saw him, he was what? What are you in sixth grade?

28:10 :

Like 12.

28:12 :

Yeah, you’re so.

28:13 :

Super kid.

28:15 :

Now he’s a grown man. He’s been through about 56 women, so he’s kind of perfected the charming role he’s like a seasoned professional right so by this time he knew exactly what to say and everything like that. So he got her to date him and they dated for about 6 weeks. He told his friends that she, Alexis, was the perfect woman, I mean. After 85 women I have.

28:42 :

Found you know.

28:44 :

After 160 women I have found the one. So he wanted her and he hoped to marry her, but he still he still was cheating on her with other people. So I don’t know what happened. It didn’t say what happened, but they broke up a week before April eighth two, thousand nine, so keep that date in your mind. So they broke up just a week before April eighth two, thousand nine. And I still don’t understand how he’s pulling all of this off. I just. I don’t understand it, but.

29:20 :

Yeah, it is baffling. And I mean, I’ve heard of an American gigolo. Oh well, Canadian gigolo.

29:26 :

Yeah, well, I mean, he’s still American because Canadian Canada is still in America. But you know what United States of Oh my God, are you really are you are you kidding me?

29:37 :

Right now? Are you serious? What are you talking about?

29:42 :

Canada is in North America. They are still Americans.

29:46 :

They’re not considered a no. You have to have a passport to go there. Are you OK? Ok guys, that’s another show.

29:55 :

Wait, no canada. Is in North America.

30:01 :

But that, which means it’s still not considered America, though it’s.

30:04 :

Not it is considered America. It’s not considered the United States of America. Like everybody from North America and South America.

30:13 :

Are Americans? No, they’re not. I mean, I look, I know Canadian citizens. I’ve never heard them say that doesn’t make sense. There’s nothing American ish about Canada, except it’s except it just happens to be right above. It just happens to be right above, say you.

30:32 :

Know Alaska Americans just Just.

30:36 :

Like Mexicans are Americans. Like I said, you’re not from the United States of America, but you’re still an American. Are you serious? Right now, wait to hear this sound off on this. I can’t wait to hear our COM is because they’re gonna think you’ve lost it. And I promise you, they’ll be on my side sure, share, that is your in for this statement I’ve ever. Anybody from Canada, anybody from Mexico? Anybody from Argentina, Chile, anywhere there, Brazil even, that’s sure. Who’s telling you all that? Y’all are not Americans. You may direct your comments to her.

31:17 :

Ok, and I’m ready, ready, willing and waiting, because that’s just crazy. But nevertheless, any who will call him, we’ll still call him the American Gigolo then.

31:29 :

Like I said, April eighth two, thousand nine. This is a date that we are going to remember.

31:35 :

We will, so we shall.

31:38 :

On April eighth two thousand nine at around three thirty PM Cute Little 8 year old Victoria Stafford who they called Tory, left her Oliver Stevens Public School to go home which was only A3 Block walk. This was quote the very first day she was allowed to leave school. And walk home by herself. So, you know, she felt like a big girl. She was like, I’m a big girl, I could make it home by myself. She was all proud and in addition to that very night she was going to have a quote room welcoming party. I called it that instead of a home warming party, so let’s call it a room warming party. In her new room in their new house, her little friends were going to come on over and have a party like a pizza and everything like that to welcome her to her new room. And she was so cool, excited, by this prospect. So she dressed up for school that day. End Quote. And to top off her outfit, her mom, Terry McDonald allowed her to borrow her earrings. So she was wearing grown up earrings. She was walking home by her little self. Oh, you can’t tell her nothing. She was just feeling good that day. Now by six oh four PM though, she still hadn’t returned home and so her grandmother ended up calling the cops and reported her missing. I remember. One time my daughter took the wrong bus and I didn’t know. And this was before she had a cell phone. And I went to pick her up at the bus stop and she wasn’t there. And I couldn’t even tell you the feeling. I couldn’t even my heart. When we sit down about what happened, yeah, I went to the school and we I found her whatever i just started crying. I just ended. People at the front office was looking at me like I was crazy. I was like, are you serious? Yeah, but she just. She wasn’t on the bus. She wasn’t on the bus. Yeah, it’s terrifying.

33:32 :

My emotions were too much. I don’t care. Was looking at me crazy, but anyways. So I can’t imagine how her mom and her grandmother felt. And they probably were blaming themselves because this, like I said, this was the first day she’s walking home alone. And they’re like, we knew we shouldn’t have done it. Oh, my.

33:48 :

God, yeah.

33:49 :

I can’t even imagine that feeling. O when the cops arrived, they were initially suspicious of Tara because they were like, OK, your child was supposed to have been home at like 3 something. Why did you wait till six to call us? So you waited all this time to call us. In addition to that, what spurred their suspicion was terror wasn’t working, which I don’t know how that’s making her suspicious, but whatever, she wasn’t working, she was addicted to drugs, and she hadn’t gone out to search for her daughter that’s suspicious to me.

34:24 :

Because she was too high.

34:26 :

2 seconds after I found out my daughter was missing, I was out like driving around aimlessly like what to know what to do.

34:32 :

Yeah, but you had focus, but a person that’s on drugs is not going to think clearly, you know, well that’s.

34:38 :

Yeah, so she didn’t go out, look for, look for her daughter and This is why the grandmother was the one who called the police and the grandmother was the one who filed the missing persons report. So it’s like, I wonder, it just seemed like everybody in this story. Has something in common and that’s being addicted to drugs that’s certainly is the common denominator like, I mean, who is not hi, who’s not high in the story like all day? One ten different drugs like. Too much?

35:12 :

So lazy. So they were initially suspicious of her mom which? When you go more into it, I can understand why. And then during the investigation, police pulled surveillance videos spanning from Tori’s house all the way to the school. And on those videos, they saw that at three thirty two PM on that day. Tori was being led down fifth avenue. In Woodstock by a woman and this woman was wearing a white winter coat and had dark hair that was in a ponytail. So when they saw this they were like, that is Terra. They were completely just like they just knew it was Tara the mother. But they went out and spoke to the witnesses at the school and they found out no, that wasn’t Tori’s mother. That’s not Tara. But they did see a woman. Walking with Tory. And these were just the other parents waiting, you know, waiting for their kids to come out of school. So then my question is, why the hell didn’t you stop? If you know, this wasn’t her mom, why didn’t you say something? Stop so quote, they thought nothing of it at the time, they assumed that Tori was with her family or friend. After all, it was broad daylight O. Abductions doesn’t happen in broad daylight like. What are you trying to say here?

36:43 :

Yeah, but I could. But I could see how it could have been an auntie or a cousin, a neighbor. Just someone that she knew. I mean, another woman doesn’t look suspicious.

36:55 :

It’s just a fallacy, and that’s an issue. That’s sexism to me. Everybody’s suspicious really because that’s not your typical when you’re given a description of, you know, a missing child and the last person they were seen with it you don’t. I mean, if you see that, you’re not going to think, oh, there’s a lady, you know, wearing a white coat. Something must be wrong. No, you’re just going to think that. Oh, OK, so she just went with her aunt. I don’t even think it’s. It is sexist. I just think she doesn’t look, you know? Unsafe, as I say.

37:33 :

I’m not sexist. I’m suspicious of all y’all matter mad woman old young is no matter. Black, white. Opportunity up in this mug. On April thirteenth police, you know, while they were searching for all this time. So on April thirteenth, police called off the ground search and allowed everyone to return back to school on the fourteenth then on april twenty fifth two, thousand nine, the case was actually featured in an episode of America’s Most Wanted. And in that episode it reported that the initial investigation was led was first led by local police with I guess that’s what initial means. And then it was later turned into a joint investigation with the Ontario Provincial Police and it changed from a missing person investigation into an abduction case wow while all this was going on, a few days later Terry Lynn y’all remember her was arrested and placed in the genus detention Center in London. Still Canada, not England, because she had violated her probation. So basically.

38:48 :

Shame on her.

38:50 :

She just wasn’t doing what she was supposed to be doing. So it basically her probation was probably like, don’t do drugs. And she probably went right back to doing drugs exactly now, while she was in the detention center, Michael called and visited her every single day. Their calls, of course, were recorded. And what do we say here at love and murder about whenever someone commits a crime?

39:17 :

They say we forgot the bird.

39:20 :

No we say here, if you’re gonna commit a crime, make sure you have as much evidence on and around your person as possible. Make sure you speak openly and candidly around everyone when you meet and on recorded phone lines about the crime that you committed. So if you’re going to come in crime, make sure you tell everybody and have.

39:42 :

All the evidence and details? Yeah, exactly. Because you know. Anyway, that’s why we call them the dumbest criminals. This is just dumb things they do.

39:52 :

Anyway, in one call. Terry Lynn told Michael that she would take the blame if it ever came down to it. Like that’s what she said quote. I’m just an 18 year old junkie anyway, so I’ll take the fall for everything. So now the question is take the fall for what?

40:13 :

No yeah, I was going to say she exactly. You want to tell us?

40:17 :

Exactly like let’s talk, you know, inmate to. Prison guard, then I guess let’s talk. On May twelfth, this was the last time Michael came to visit her, and in that visit she touched his face and he laughed, I guess at her and said quote, you’ll do anything for a bit of love, eh?

40:40 :

Ok.

40:41 :

So then that was May twelfth so then may. Nineteenth terry lynn. Said was like, hey Officer, Hey, I have something to say. I have some very important information that you’re going to want to know and you’re going to want to take me seriously. I want to talk. So they’re like. Ok, so they took her to the interrogation room. And during some hours of interrogation, Terry Lynn sang like a. Bird they always do.

41:19 :

Always do. Now this is what she said. She told investigators that she was the one in that video. Well, she didn’t say she was in the video because she didn’t know they had a video. But she was the one who lured Tori to a car where Michael was waiting. And the way she did that is she told Tori that she had. And puppies to show her the old puppy trick.

41:43 :

The old puppy trick, yeah.

41:46 :

So then when the when the baby got to the car, I called her a baby, but she was eight when she got to the car. You know, they abducted her and they got on to the four oh one highway and headed east. Now listen to this crazy turn of events. They first went to Gulf over in Gulf. Michael stopped to buy some. Percocet pills. He got that from a friend and then he went to an ATM to take out some money. And then they went to Home Depot, where Terry Lynn bought a hammer and green garbage bags. Finally, they drove into Wellington County countryside. In the countryside, this is where Michael raped Tori. Then he watched his genitalia with bottle with water from some bottles like bottled water, and then they murdered her. And this is what Terry Lynn is just telling them. O of course, Terry Lynn was arrested because WTF like, are you serious? And she was charged with being an accessory to murder. Were you going to say?

42:51 :

No, she’s literally just, she’s just like, hey, I’m just going to hand this over to you on a on a platter with extra sauce, you know, and gravy and everything. Here, you can have it. I’m going to tell you everything. I mean, they didn’t even have to beat it out of her usually interrogation room. You’re being interrogated. But she was just like, OK, I’m just going to tell you everything. Like, I wonder why.

43:12 :

Usually in the interrogation the cops come to you, not you go to the cops, so.

43:17 :

Well, that’s true.

43:20 :

I guess, yeah. So Terry Lynn was arrested of course, and charged with being an accessory to murder and also some other lesser charges. The next day on May twentieth two, thousand nine, police of course visited Michael at his house like, hey, what’s up? But when they got there, you know, knocked on the door, everything, you know, Michael, you his demeanor was that of cockiness and relaxation, like he was just like what?

43:50 :

He was like, super chill. Like, what’s up? Actually, they.

43:53 :

The officers asked him, had you heard about, have you been hearing the news like this little girl Victoria is missing and everything like that. And Michael said, quote, just the stuff on the news. That’s how he heard, that’s what he said he heard. It was just whatever the news said. And then he said they were like, well, why were you really tuning into this in the news like that seems, you know. And he said, well, I had to keep an air out because you know, I want to help. What do, what the hell would you want to help with?

44:24 :

The search I mean I.

44:26 :

Mean what I guess. Anyways, then he just started randomly talking about all his girlfriends or some girls that he knew. And then he started telling the officers about jobs that he was working and, you know, just started rambling on or whatever. And then the cops were like, yeah, I hear, I hear all that. But we ain’t hear about you. Let’s get back to Tori. Do you know who this woman named Terry Lynn is? And Michael was like, he only knew her name was Terry Lynn, he said. But I don’t know her last name. So he’s acting like he knows her and passing like, you know, I’ve seen her a couple of times. I know she’s Terry Lynn, but she sounds familiar. These were like, really? Well, she sure knows you. And they arrested him. You have the right to remain. After I was going to say the F right to remain F and he they charged him with first degree murder and brought him down to the station. In the meantime, Terry Lynn decided she was going to help police search for Tori’s remains and of course not. By now she has a lawyer and he went out and stated that his client quote wants Tori’s family to know that she is trying hard to find her body. If I was Tori’s family.

45:45 :

That’s really gonna put movies.

45:47 :

I’d be like, you know what, tell her to come over my house. I just wanna tell her that we forgive her. I just. I just want to have you with her and tell her we forgive her. Just bring her over real quick and pour all this Clorox and bleach that everything.

46:02 :

In this team.

46:03 :

Down and fucking throat. Like Tori’s family wants you to know that she’s trying hard to find her body. How about not killing my child in the first place?

46:13 :

Like, yeah, I was gonna say, you know, the families always want, tend to want closure by finding the body, but that is not going to bring her back. Like how dare you know, and suddenly you have this change of heart after the fact.

46:28 :

Like, is the lawyer stating this like she’s so sorrowful and she just wants you to know that she’s trying hard to find the body? I couldn’t be a lawyer. I couldn’t be a lawyer. I’d be the.

46:39 :

Worst lawyer?

46:40 :

Yeah, I’d be like, guilty.

46:44 :

It would be like walking up and you literally strangling the defense.

46:48 :

I would be slapping the how could you kill her? Too bad. What’s that matter? I would be the worst lawyer. Ok, now it’s interesting to note that neither Terry Lynn. Or Michael were even on the COPS radar. They if she didn’t come and open her mouth. They might have found out about them looking at the video and just doing more investigation, but at that point in time. They weren’t anywhere on the cops radar.

47:24 :

So wow.

47:26 :

Yeah, so then people are like, well, why did she just come out and say this to the cops? so. One theory is that she told the cops because she heard that Michael was messing around with other women while she was in prison. Then there’s.

47:41 :

Another yeah, like a revenge angle.

47:45 :

Exactly then there’s another theory that says. Michael was supposedly, I’ll say allegedly questioned on May fifteenth and then he called her while she was in prison and told her that he wouldn’t be visiting or calling her for a while. And then another theory was because. She thought it was the right thing to do, which I call bullshit, and I’m more believable.

48:11 :

The first one.

48:12 :

That he was cheated on her and she was like, oh, for real? Exactly so that’s the one that I watched this exactly.

48:18 :

For real? You won’t cheat on me? Ok, I’m going to show you hurt. Now, during the investigation, police saw Michael’s Honda Civic on surveillance video, and it was near the school three times during the day that Tori went missing. So they don’t have kids. So it’s like, why are you just circling the school? Like, why are you here? You know what I’m saying? So that seems suspicious. The video also, like other videos, also showed that Michael was at the ATM, that he pulled out the money, just like Terry Lynn said. And it shows Terry Lynn at the Home Depot, just like she said she went and bought those green trash bags and stuff. And the only thing is, Tori wasn’t in any of the videos, but they undisputedly is it undisputedly or undisputedly. Either way, disputably the opposite. Said that knew that she was there because her DNA was found in a blood detection in the rear of the car of the Honda Civic of Michaels Honda Civic Two was found in his.

49:28 :

Car, yeah exactly so now what is your excuse? Like, how are you going to charm this one away? You know what I’m saying? And in one spot there was a gym bag. Found in the car and on that gym bag. Tori’s blood. Was mixed with Michael’s blood. How are you going to charm that one away?

49:53 :

Yeah how.

49:54 :

Mister charming exactly? Exactly so then on May twenty eighth two, thousand nine, Terry Lynch charges were changed to 1st degree murder and an unlawful confinement charge. And then it also came out that both her and Michael were going to be tried separately, so it wasn’t going to be a joint trial. Well, what is, what is unlawful confinement? Is that kidnapping? Is that the same thing?

50:23 :

Basically, like they were holding her against her will.

50:25 :

Yeah, that’s. But that’s kidnapping. Ok, that’s the same thing. Yeah, I just.

50:29 :

Figured it was just a different way to say it, yeah so during the investigation cuz they’re still investigating because remember, they haven’t found Tori yet. They haven’t found any sign of her yet. So during the investigation it was also revealed that Terry Lynn checked this out lived only about four blocks from Tori’s house, so she was literally their neighbor.

50:54 :

So she might have been watching her anyway, you know, just. In general, I mean, she’s a close neighbor like, hey, I got.

51:02 :

One from that would explain why Tori went with her because she knew her. So it wasn’t like she was even with a stranger. She knew her.

51:12 :

Yeah, because the beginning I was like, Umm.

51:15 :

Yeah, in the beginning I was like, why did Tori go with her? But then I just chalked it up to it being children, and that’s how children are well.

51:22 :

You know, I do say and or neighbor, I said it could be an anti, you know, mother, sister or neighbor. And so that’s why I didn’t see her as being to someone suspicious as the last person that they saw. Yeah, the last. I mean it just makes sense.

51:37 :

Yeah, so then. So then.

51:39 :

Until neighbors.

51:41 :

So then on July nineteenth after a hundred, and three days of being missing, Detective Sergeant Jim Smith reported that Tories badly decomposed remains were found and they were found under a rock pile in the countryside of Ontario near Mount Forest. Now Tori’s body was found in what? Green trash bags.

52:10 :

Member yeah, well, I remember at that stop.

52:13 :

Green trash bag. And she was naked from the waist down. She was only wearing a Hannah Montana T-shirt and she was wearing those earrings that she had.

52:24 :

Borrowed from her mother, yeah.

52:27 :

And the lower half of her body was just crazy decomposed. O of course, police took the body in. They had to verify that it was toryn and everything like that during the autopsy. It was determined that she had been beaten, and this beaten was so severe that it caused lacerations to her liver. That’s how badly this little girl was beaten. And she had 16 broken ribs and that was unnecessary. Why did they do that?

53:07 :

And she was basically beaten in the head. With a claw hammer. To the to the point that her face was just, it was just smashed in. And so they said, that’s what killed her. But even if that didn’t happen, the laceration to her liver and her 16.

53:27 :

Yeah, of course she would. She would have looked internally anyway yeah she was just basically suffering from every possible angle of, you know, touch your child. That, yeah, that’s a lot to endure.

53:42 :

On July twenty first two, thousand nine, it was confirmed that this body, these remains, were Tories. And then so they took Michael in for an interview. And I’m going to try and find the video of this interview and post it in our Patreon for our lamps. But apparently this is a really. I don’t even know just. This interview was four hours long and people have watched it. A lot i haven’t seen it, but i’m very. I can’t even imagine. I wonder like what? What’s his personality though? Is he narcissistic with the way that he?

54:24 :

Speaks because it does say yeah or his.

54:27 :

Demeanor, like what was yeah so I’m going to try and find this interview. No, I didn’t watch it yet. Yeah, I know I didn’t really do my due diligence as a true crime podcaster, but I haven’t watched it yet. But this is a four hour long interview. And it was done with three experienced police officers, police officers, one of which was Detective Sergeant Jim Smith, who he was famous for getting the sex killer Russell Williams to confess to two murders. So he got a killer to confess. And he’s in there with Michael. And Michael didn’t bat an eyelid. He was just there. He didn’t say crap. In four hours and the officers tried everything. They even brought in Terry Lynn and was like, you gonna say she’s a liar? You gonna say she’s a liar? Tell her to face. Tell her to her face that she’s lying.

55:26 :

And he still didn’t. But it’s really.

55:29 :

No, he said. Quote, Terry is a liar. That’s what he said wow so at one point. Officer Smith said to Michael that quote, this is the next Paul Bernardo, whether you like it or not. So for those of you who don’t know Paul Bernardo is a serial killer, well, it’s made-up of a duo. It’s like 2 people and they were serial killers and it was Bernardo and Karla Homolka from the early nineties and we’re going to do a serial killer corner in our Patreon at some point about them. So he said basically you’re the next Paul Bernardo. You and Terry.

56:10 :

Lynn and that makes them but that’s like gloating it makes just imagine it makes a killer feel like yeah I can get away with this and like I did something amazing like I’m super fat I’ll be super famous and i should be like praised and like I’m some I don’t know like I just I don’t like that I mean why would you. It’s almost like you’re patting them on the back and saying yeah.

56:35 :

Good job. I don’t think he was trying to pat them on the back. I think he was just trying to say, like, you’re gonna you’re gonna crack just like bernardos did. You’re going to crack.

56:45 :

Oh, i thought they were saying this case is so heinous and so disturbing. And you’re, you know. You’re just like them. And they were famous serial killers. Like, I don’t know, but I mean, I mean.

57:01 :

Like, wow, possibly be both. I’m not sure, but I’m more thinking that y’all did a similar crime and we’re going to crack you just like we cracked them, that’s.

57:10 :

Ok. Now that would make more sense to me. Yeah so then they even brought in a behavioral science detective Constable Chris loam. And he questioned Michael several times, and he still didn’t crack. He still didn’t say anything well officer.

57:32 :

Smith brought in pictures of Tory, you know, the decomposed body, everything like that. Brought in all these pictures, brought in pictures of her when she was alive, you know, look at this cute little girl, shoved it in Michael’s face, but he just sat there. Looking at a wall like.

57:52 :

Wonder what the score is and.

57:53 :

What else you got?

57:55 :

Exactly what? So then after a while he did look down at the pictures and Officer Loem told him that he could choose between two public images of himself. You could either be seen as a cold blooded remorseless killer like Bernardo, or you could be seen on someone like Michael. I don’t know how you say this name, Brier who? Michael brierre. He had done basically the same thing, and we’ll do an episode of him. So he’d basically done the same thing. But when he was caught, he apologized. Then he explained why he did it and his reasoning for explaining why he did it. So it was so that this would never happen to another child and parents would know how to protect their children. So he was.

58:45 :

Telling him you seen.

58:46 :

As a remorseful.

58:48 :

Remorseful, yes or remorseless killer. And Michael was like or I could be seen as these nuts and he still didn’t say anything, so he just was.

58:58 :

Yeah, exactly like. It’s not funny, but you’re crazy.

59:04 :

There’s like no matter what didn’t break, Michael did not say anything. No just stone face nothing. But they were like, yeah, well, whatever. We have all the evidence we need. So on April thirtieth two, thousand ten, Terry Lynn was scheduled to make an appearance in court. But a publication ban, maybe that’s a Canadian thing. A publication ban was imposed by the judge on the events of the day. But then on December nineteenth two, thousand, ten so, that’s, april, may, june, july, august september, october, november december eight months eight months, later the ban was lifted and when the ban was lifted it showed that Terry Lynn had pled guilty to 1st degree murder. Now she was then sentenced to life in prison with no chance of parole for 25 years. I mean, I should be no chance of parole why?

59:57 :

Not give 25 That’s what I was going to say. If it’s no chance, there’s no chance.

01:00:03 :

No this is the US, this is Canada. This is their law. They do give you chance of parole in 25 years. I forgot about that.

01:00:10 :

And they put like a number on it like OK, so there is a chance.

01:00:14 :

I mean, yeah, you have a chance of parole for 25 years in 25 years, but that’s like that doesn’t mean you’re getting out. You just have.

01:00:21 :

Yeah, but what is the point of saying life then? That’s not life if there’s ever a chance of parole.

01:00:26 :

Canada’s law they allow.

01:00:28 :

You to.

01:00:30 :

They show that you’ve gotten better and then they might let you out. So she was then sent to Grand Valley Institution for women in Oh my gosh, what’s this name? Kitchener kitchener ontario so then january fourteenth two, thousand twelve. So this is like two years later. Terry Lynn they’re actually not two years because she was sentenced in January 19. I’m sorry, in December nineteenth that’s basically january 2011 So yeah, a year later. So let’s say a year later. Terry Lynn decided to change her story. So she called up Detective Smith and she said, look, I want to tell you all the truth. And the truth is, I’m the one who did all of it. I raped the little girl. I killed the little girl. I’m the one who did all of this however. The way she was telling the story, it didn’t make sense to police, so they kind of didn’t.

01:01:30 :

Believe it makes sense at all, even hearing it on my end and I didn’t even get the details well, for instance, at one point in time she said, quote, maybe I didn’t walk away from the car, but he called me back in the car. So I went back in the car and I killed her what?

01:01:47 :

So she’s really just starting, she’s slipping. Look, she’s losing her mind. And mentally, you know, she’s slipping away. And I think that she doesn’t know the difference of reality from what you know from back, what it is are you.

01:02:01 :

Think mister charming prince Charming. There was charming his way into her heart. And she was like, you know what? You really do love me. I’ll take the fall for it. I really think it’s not that she was losing her mind. I think that he charmed the shit out of her on March fifth, 2012 That’s when Michael’s trial started. He his trial was for kidnapping, sexual assault and 1st degree murder. Of course. Shar, what did he plead?

01:02:30 :

Not guilty, your honor.

01:02:33 :

Not guilty to 1st degree murder, kidnapping and sexual assault, he said. I had nothing to do with it.

01:02:39 :

Didn’t you hear what Terry Lee was alright?

01:02:42 :

It wasn’t me. Yeah, so then in opening statement, Crown Attorney Kevin Gowdy told the jurors that when they hear from Terry Lynn quote, you will unquestionably be disturbed by the choices she made with Michael Rafferty to bring this all about. The jurors were also told by ontario Superior Court Judge Thomas Heaney that while Michael May, quote unquote occasionally be referred to as the accused they were to take, no. Negative inference from the term because it is simply a label to describe one of the participants in a trial what? Are you Siri? I mean, I think that’s a Canadian thing, I think.

01:03:28 :

That’s I was just going to say we’re already figuring out a lot of this wow it’s just wow.

01:03:32 :

That are just really also.

01:03:34 :

Sworn to us because, you know, we’re not from there. Yeah he also warned a jury that they will hear graphic and disturbing evidence during the course of the trial. And yeah, they heard graphic and disturbing evidence. In opening statements, Attorney Crown Gowdy said that the Crown will present video surveillance and BlackBerry. Records of phone records that show that Michael was. Directly responsible for Tori’s disappearance, disappearance, and that there were witnesses that saw Terry Lynn take Tory. There was video surveillance pathology will testify that Tory died as a result of multiple hammer blows to the head. And there’s DNA evidence in Michael’s car linked to Tori’s disappearance. So basically they said no matter what he says, we have all the evidence right here. And we can show it to you yes now will your way out of that one, mister charmer exactly.

01:04:37 :

Now Tori’s mother would be the first to testify, and I cannot even imagine. They also spoke to a bunch of witnesses who saw, who saw Terry Lynn with her with Tory today. Like I said, Tory today, Tory that day, like I said and. This, there’s a whole breakdown of the trial which I won’t go into right now, else we’ll be here for another hour. But if you want to hear the breakdown of the trial, which I will go ahead and do, go ahead and join our Patreon at the 5$ or above tier and I will go into even more detail. In the trial, you want to hear it, you don’t want to miss it because this was an insane trial. Just imagine Michael wasn’t saying anything in a four hour interview. So how do you think the trial’s going to go? Yes, so.

01:05:25 :

Like a circus.

01:05:26 :

Now during the 10 week trial, Michael constantly for some odd reason chewed on ice and became as quote the Manchu and Ice in the prisoners box. I mean you could have kind of shortened it, but OK. I mean and I’ll actually when I go into more about the trial they actually talk more about this as well. And as you can imagine during the entire 10 week trial Michael didn’t speak at all. At all. He just stood there staring at people or sat there staring at people chewing on ice and all of this stuff. And remember his the girlfriend he had met when they were what, in sixth grade and everything like that. She came in, she talked about their relationship, and when she came in, she was the only one that he was like weird. She came in and he’s just like piped up, sat up straight and stared at her all the way while she walked to the stand, stared at her. Intensely while she was on the stand and stared at her as she walked out. Like, what was this supposed to mean? I love you name that.

01:06:35 :

Could be an intimidating.

01:06:37 :

No, I don’t think so. That’s the one member. This is the one that he said was his perfect woman.

01:06:43 :

Yeah, they were out together for all of 6.

01:06:45 :

So I don’t think she realized imidate her. I think he was trying to charm her. Like, look, I’ve only got eyes for you while I’m back here for child pornography child really, exactly serious. Anyways, during the trial it was reported that Michael was a sexual was a sexual deviant who went online for child pornography and had this weird kink for sexual choking and torture sex. Ok. I mean.

01:07:18 :

Well, you know, that is a thing, I mean.

01:07:20 :

I mean, I yeah. I think he was actually really active on his dating app on April ninth, which was the day after Tori disciplined disappeared. And it showed that he contacted several women at the same time and he even had sex with a woman on that day. Like he just killed the kid and this is what he’s doing. That is, that is so heinous now between January twenty fifth and april seventh two, thousand nine, he had downloaded a bunch of child porn onto his laptop. And if y’all want to hear. And getting to know the whole story where one of us knew somebody who got. Chip, who got clipped, I guess for child pornography, didn’t help. Head on over to our Patreon and you could hear that weird story over there. On March thirteenth two, thousand nine, Michael had Googled quote children for sale and quote sale of babies what?

01:08:29 :

This one I didn’t think you can get any worse.

01:08:31 :

Children for sale and sale.

01:08:33 :

Of banks I know.

01:08:34 :

You’re kidding me. And then on March thirtieth, he was dating this woman. He found this woman online. He started dating her. She had a baby who was still in the crib, and he asked her if her if her daughter would quote snuggle up with us tonight. L like if you were dating somebody shar. And your son was like 9 months old, and he was like, hey, your son’s gonna snuggle with us tonight. What would you do?

01:09:00 :

I would just freak out. Like this guy is probably a serial killer or something, you know?

01:09:05 :

And even.

01:09:06 :

Just, yeah, that’s really even after that he asked her if she would give him her first born child. And then after they saw that the next day is when Tori disappeared. So he was. Yeah, he was building up to this. So on May eleventh twenty twelve at nine eighteen PM, the jury found Michael guilty of every single charge there was. Well, not there was, but what they charged him with, they found him guilty of all of it. On May fifteenth, 2012 he was sentenced to life in prison with no chance of parole, you know, for 25 years. What they do in Canada there.

01:09:46 :

You go can exactly.

01:09:48 :

And he was sent to the Kingston Penitentiary. Now this jerk had the cojones that on July 26 2012 he appealed his conviction stating that quote the judges instructions to the jury were flawed. So that means I’m not guilty of murdering this child you know because his instructions were flawed. But the 30 day deadline to do the appeal had passed and he said yeah I know because I couldn’t use the phone because I was in jail. So then the court. Was like, well, OK, we’ll give you an extension. They granted him an extension to file his appeal. Yes, girl all.

01:10:30 :

The conveniences of home in Canadian prison.

01:10:33 :

This will not be happening in including florida,

01:10:36 :

Can you Can you believe that? Oh, absolutely now on June tenth, 2013 he appeared by video to plead his case and when he turned on his camera, he just saw the judges and. Doors with the middle finger up and they basically you know was like no, we’re not. Yeah whatever, we drew this out to make you think you had something to say but no F you go back to jail.

01:11:02 :

You’re going under the jail exactly.

01:11:06 :

So he’s basically still in jail now on October eighteenth october why am I speaking all weird now? On October, October eighteenth terry Lynn was moved from her prison to. A native? How do I put this? A healin Lodge of the natives in Canada. But The thing is. She tried to say she was a native, but it was never confirmed that she was a native. You know what I’m saying? And her family was saying.

01:11:44 :

They sent her to a spa, practically.

01:11:46 :

Dude, the Healing Lodge because she said she was a native so they had to send her with her i get that far, but I’m like.

01:11:52 :

That just exactly, exactly, exactly. And then her family, it was not ever confirmed that she was a native. And her family members even came out and was like, we’re white. Like, what are you doing? Right so the lodge, the native Lodge was actually a minimum security prison, and it was unfenced. But they watched it 24 hours a day with video cameras. That’s it. So literally she could have just gotten up and ran out or whatever. So they went.

01:12:25 :

Through she got to take a bath in some Hot Springs and you know, a couple of messages and yeah, I mean that’s crazy that’s insane. But they went through a whole process of, like, debating. Is and trying to fight it and it was actually overturned on November seventh. It did show that she wasn’t a native. What are you doing out here? You killed an 8 year old FU woman, take your ass back to federal prison. And then they tightened the regulations for transferring long term prisoners to healing lodges. So they made it stricter. So then she was transferred to the multi level Edmonton. The institution for women, and that’s people is a devastating, horrible case of Victoria Stafford. The precious baby is dead and the two boneheads that was behind it are behind bars for life. Well, you know, with the possibility of parole in 25 years.

01:13:28 :

Canadian possibility things, Waco, but.

01:13:31 :

Yeah, sure. I just want to say thank you so much for joining us tonight, although it was a terrible case. You were here for the first episode of season 3. And I know yeah well, you know what i mean I’m actually i was feeling to them. I don’t know honored to come back. You know, it’s been it’s been a long time and i figured if I’m going to come back you know, and my own unwary way, it should be a really gruesome case. Something that I’ll never forget and.

01:14:05 :

You? Always say it was good to go big or go home you know.

01:14:10 :

Of course you did it really big. Unfortunately, it’s all.

01:14:14 :

True, yeah. Unfortunately, yeah.

01:14:16 :

So this, this has been, it’s been good you know, to join you again. So thank you everyone for listening to and even bearing through it with us. But yeah I didn’t know anything about the case as many times, you know on the show, so.

01:14:33 :

And if you still want to hear Kai and Shar, as many of y’all have been asking me for the past, how many months, don’t forget, you can head on. Over to our Patreon WWW dot patreon dot com forward slash love and murder and we have a new corner coming out, which is we haven’t named it yet, but basically we’re reacting to court videos together.

01:14:55 :

Yeah, it’ll be fun guys in our own kite and shar. Very twisted sarcastic banter. You guys will love it.

01:15:03 :

Though so I know y’all haven’t heard this from us in a long time, but we want to remind y’all that it’s always. Love and no murder. Y’all goodbye everyone night.